*‘We do not rule out fifth columnist at work’
*Says Buhari will not reverse Daura’s sack when he resumes from vacation
Sen Babafemi Ojudu
By Olalekan Bilesanmi
Senator Babafemi Ojudu is Special Adviser on Political Matters in the Presidency. Attached to the office of the Vice President, Ojudu, in this interview, speaks on the siege laid to the National Assembly last Tuesday by the Department of State Security (DSS) for which Acting President Yemi Osinbajo fired the DSS DG, Mr Lawal Daura.
There was tension across the nation from 7am on Tuesday, when the news broke that the DSS had barricaded the National Assembly, till evening time when we heard that the Acting President, Professor Yemi Osinbajo, was in a meeting with top security operatives, including the IG of Police and the DG of the DSS. Shortly after, we heard that the DSS DG had been fired with immediate effect. What led up to that from what you know?
We were shocked to see DSS operatives at the National Assembly, particularly hooded, and it was very embarrassing to the Acting President. We then went out to look for information, particularly when people started calling us, that it was on TV that APC lawmakers had been allowed into the Assembly Complex and PDP lawmakers were not allowed in. Immediately I was asked to go in there to find out what happened. I got there about 11 am and found about 25 PDP lawmakers sitting down at the lobby of the National Assembly. I looked around, looking for APC members but I could not find a single one. I went back. What exactly is happening here? What we were told was that PDP members were not allowed into the chambers, that APC members were inside trying to impeach the Senate President. We found out that the information was not true. Then, what really happened? If you sensed that trouble was coming and you then decided to barricade, so how did those people manage to enter? It gave room to curiosity. And who did you discuss with before going to barricade? The Acting President was not informed. He was not told. If you are going to take such a measure as a security chief, you need to consult with the Commander-in-Chief of the country, the Chief Security Officer of the country needed to be informed and consulted, then, he will tell you whether it was right to do so or not right to do so. But he was in the dark, he didn’t know anything. He got to know about the incident like you and me. And we quickly tried to find out what went wrong.
Two days ago, the spokesperson for the PDP went on TV to say that there was going to be an attempt to forcefully impeach the Senate President and that they had information that the DSS was going to take over the National Assembly. In fact, from what we gathered, some members of the National Assembly had kept vigil around the National Assembly. Are you saying that all of this information was kept away from the Acting President?
No single lawmaker of the APC was at the premises of the National Assembly when that happened even though a TV channel reported that APC lawmakers were inside the place.
It was Senator Ben Bruce who alleged that APC senators were being let in; interestingly, every attempt to get across to APC senators were unsuccessful.
As of that time they were said to be holed up inside the National Assembly, APC senators were actually in a meeting. They were in their normal caucus meeting while some had gone to their constituencies as soon as the Senate President adjourned parliament. I don’t know where people got that story from. It is either they misled the DSS that something was going to go amiss or there is complicity on the part of some people within the organization. PDP is given to drama. They are given to misleading the public. Look at the other time they said the police had stormed Senate President Saraki’s house and that they were going to arrest him, the next thing we saw was Saraki in the chambers reading out the names of people who had defected from the APC to the PDP. We investigated and discovered that the vehicles that were used supposedly to block Saraki’s house were vehicles that belonged to operatives stationed with him. Something is wrong somewhere. I think they are trying to work on the people’s imagination, trying to get some kind of sympathy from the populace. You know of a strong member of the PDP caucus who said he was kidnapped and he had to be on top of the tree for 11 hours. All those are just drama.
There is this question of whether or not President Muhamadu Buhari approved the sacking of the DG of the DSS.
President Buhari is on vacation abroad. There is an Acting President. And if you look at what the Constitution requires in the case that the President is on vacation, you know that he has already transmitted a letter to the Senate indicating that the Vice President will act in his absence. So, therefore, he (Acting President) has all the powers.
Nobody is questioning the powers of the Acting President. What I am asking about is the political reality in which a member of the inner caucus of security chiefs has been sacked. And there have been issues in the past where DSS invaded the Benue House of Assembly and allowed eight lawmakers inside to issue impeachment notice to the governor and the Federal Government, at that time, said, ‘Our hands are not in this matter’. Nothing was done to the DG of the DSS then and President Buhari was in the country. Now we have an Acting President who sacked the DG of the DSS. I am asking if the Acting President acted in consultation with the President who is on leave.
Acting President is Acting President. What transpired between them as to whether he was consulted or not is not important in this matter. What is important is that the Acting President found something that doesn’t augur well for our democracy and he acted quickly. And he assured Nigerians and the rest of the world that our democracy is on course and that we are not going to allow brigandage in our national life.
The Acting President has been praised for this decision, I don’t think anybody…
(Cuts in). It is not even about praise. He has done what is right in the circumstance. He is not after praise. I am saying that whatever transpired between the Acting President and the President who is on vacation is not for me to come on television and disclose. But I am saying that, in this matter, the Acting President, in his own opinion, decided that what happened was not right for our democracy and he has taken a decision. What should be our concern should not be about praising because he does not require praising from anybody. We cannot tolerate brigandage in our national life. And the National Assembly is an arm of government that is independent; the executive should not be brought into it. If the National Assembly members want to go into the chambers and break one another’s head, let them go and do it. Let it be the National Assembly’s matter and not something with the executive.
What do you say to Nigerians who have raised concern that there is a potential for the return of President Buhari upon which he may reverse the order!
No, no, no. Again, many of you don’t seem to know President Buhari. He is not that kind of person. He is a very just and fair person. If he had been around, he probably would not have allowed this kind of thing to happen without some kind of sanction. This has been the limit of it. When you see state officials hooded in front of the National Assembly, preventing people from entering enter… Again, you get curious, that you say some lawmakers are not being allowed to enter; meanwhile some other people were in there, holding some kind of meeting, and even drinking Whisky at the premises of the National Assembly, celebrating. The photographs are on the social media where 25 lawmakers of the PDP, a mixture of Senate and House of Representatives members, sat down at the lobby, drinking.
I have to remind you. There was the Executive Secretary of the NHIS; the Acting President at that time empowered a panel to investigate his activities, and, following some allegations, he was suspended. But when the President returned, the Executive Secretary was returned to office. There is a precedent.
Again, let me say this: Quite often when I read something in the papers or listen to some views on television, they are devoid of the facts. It is not what you read on social media that often happens. I read quite a lot of what was said to have happened at the meeting the Acting President had with the security chiefs in the aftermath of the invasion of the National Assembly: How Daura was rude to the Acting President; he (Daura) was insulting him (Osinbajo). All those ones are fake news. You don’t base your judgement on hearsay. Those of us who are in there and those who are knowledgeable enough and search for the real facts will then be able to assess the situation and give the correct opinion. But some of the things you are fed with in the social media and even in some of the newspapers are not the facts. When you base your judgement on that, it could be very frustrating.
You said APC senators were not seen at the scene. But we understand that there was an APC caucus meeting that was being held in Aso Drive and the allegation made against APC senators was that the caucus meeting had a link with the lockdown of the National Assembly.
Certainly not. I spoke to some of the senators as I wanted to know exactly what the meeting was about. They were concerned that the President presented a budget for the electoral commission for the elections coming up early next year. And as soon as the budget was presented, the Senate President ordered adjournment of parliament and they were worried about what to do. If we continue this way, there will be no elections next year. And if the President comes out next year and says procurement was done late, so, therefore, we are going to postpone the elections, all of you will shout, ‘oh, the man is trying to elongate his stay’. Now they were concerned about that because when you are procuring for elections, it is not something you do in one or two months. This was what they were discussing. That was the main topic they went to discuss. The meeting had been called before the blockade. If you are going to call the leadership of the Senate to discuss issues of national importance, each of the caucuses, I was in the Senate myself, will meet. What will be our common position at the meeting we are being called to attend? After the meeting, they learnt about the drama staged by the PDP caucus at the National Assembly in conjunction with some people from the DSS, they felt there was no need , what are you going to brief the press about?
Why didn’t they come to the National Assembly then?
To come and do what? Have you seen the statement issued by them?
The Acting President issued a statement saying the siege to the National Assembly was an affront on the rule of law, condemning very strongly what had happened. One would have thought that if the National Assembly was an institution the senators and members of the House of Representatives would like to protect, one of the things they would have done to show their joint distaste for this would have been to show some presence at the National Assembly.
And then it will be reported that they had come to invade or impeach the Senate President.
At some point, we saw members of the APC. We saw one APC Rep who came to the National Assembly much later.
At the time members of the APC went there, nobody could have sat. You have the time senators sit. You could go there to do your personal business. Let me be clear about this. Whatever it is you say or whatever it is your opinion, in the rules of the Senate, the minority cannot preside. Ultimately, whichever party that has the majority will have to provide leadership for the Senate. It is an aberration anywhere in the world for a minority group to produce the leadership of parliament, it is not done. No matter the love anybody has for Saraki, or whatever it is, it will not happen.
PDP senators said the DG of the DSS was just a fall guy in the failed attempted coup.
If he was a fall guy, how did they manage to access the National Assembly chambers? Ita Enang, the Liaison Officer to the President on National Assembly Matters, could not even get access to the National Assembly, so how did those members find their way to the point that they were even celebrating with Whisky right inside the National Assembly? I am saying with all sense of responsibility that what happened, and I want to be corrected, was scripted.
By whom?
By the PDP.
Are you alleging that the DSS was working with the PDP?
You are going to hear more about this. I am not prepared to tell you this categorically. But you are going to hear more on this. There is a lot of complicity. I know and I want to tell you that quite a number of these things that happened could just be the handiwork of a fifth columnist.
Do you think it is the DSS DG?
When you have an opportunity to bring him on this programme, you will need to put all of this to him. How did it happen that you say you were sealing up the National Assembly, yet all of the PDP members were there in the morning and found their way into the premises?
The issue has been around 2/3rd of whichever chamber to effect leadership change and some people are saying, no, the 2/3rd is about forming a quorum and that the APC, in conjunction with the DSS, was trying to form a quorum to allow them to establish new leadership.
It is not true. Let us look at it this way. People who were not near the premises, you are alleging that they were trying to do something. Those who were there, you are not alleging anything against them. That, to me, is not fair. But talking about the mode of electing the leader in the Senate, the law is very clear. In the rules, it is only the party with the majority in the National Assembly that can elect the leader. You cannot have the minority producing the leader of the Senate. You are now saying whether it is those present that are voting or the entire members. Please, I want you to go back to the record, when Saraki was elected the President of the Senate, how many senators were there? Were they 96, were they 70, were they 60? Many of the senators were at the International Conference Centre, ICC, on that day, waiting to meet with the President. And the few who were there quickly elected him (Saraki) and he was sworn-in. What I am saying is that the law says 2/3rd of lawmakers present in a sitting. Now, do you agree with me on the procedure that was used in electing Saraki as Senate President at that time? Those who were sitting that day were not 96.
You alleged that there seems to be a fifth columnist at work on the National Assembly siege. You seem to suggest that the DG was the fifth columnist. Right?
That is your own conjecture. If you now conclude on your own that I was referring to him, then we can quote you. I am saying there was collusion between the PDP caucus and a fifth columnist within the system to allow what happened to happen.
By “within the system”, you mean within the executive arm of government?
I am talking about within the security apparatus regarding what they did. It could have been anybody.
What transpired at the meeting that was held between the Acting President and the Acting DG of the DSS and the Inspector General of Police?
You mean I should come on television to narrate what happened between security chiefs and the Acting President? I am saying a meeting between the Inspector General of Police, DSS DG is a meeting that is held behind closed doors. So if anybody comes on television or go on social media to say “this is exactly what transpired”, the person will be lying. What is important in this case is that the Acting President was not happy about what happened at the National Assembly.
Let me read this, “Nobody arrested me. I was only called to the Villa. I acted based on the instruction given by the APC Chairman through the Chief of Staff to the President”.
You are a journalist. I am a journalist. Now, tell me, where was the press conference venue where he said that? Was he at a press conference; was he in his office? If you are quoting somebody, you should be able to support it with other things. I am a journalist. I practiced journalism for 30 years. Stop saying that. If you got such a quote, ask yourself, was that said at a press conference addressed by the DSS DG or did he say it in his office or his house?
In your view, the DSS DG that was sacked was working with a Presiding Officer of the National Assembly.
Again, you are bringing issues that are extraneous to what happened. I want to go back to what happened. There was a siege laid to the National Assembly. And it came to the attention of the Acting President. And he thinks that was not democratic, not decent; he then took a decision based on information available to him. Now bringing in extraneous cases and circumstances, to me, does not arise at this point in time. If in future you want to write about the career of the DG, DSS and his role in governance, you can then begin to look for all other facts to fill your book. But in this matter, that decision was taken based on information available to him (Osinbajo).
You are saying there is no conspiracy between the APC caucus and the DG, DSS.
Not to my knowledge.
If the DG was sacked because of this unlawful invasion, are you saying that the DG took an irrational action, acting alone for no good reason; otherwise, there is no political conspiracy; so would he do that?
If his action had been rational and had been a normal or a decent practice, he would not have been sacked. Get that right. You don’t get sacked for doing what was right. You get sacked for wrongdoing. And he did what was wrong and that was why he got sacked.
The question is whether this man was caught in a botched operation.
If there is going to be such an operation, for God’s sake, there would have been a discussion with the Acting President, he would have had knowledge of it. This man got to know of it just like you and me. So, nobody sent anybody on such an errand. The APC lawmakers that you people are accusing of wanting to impeach Saraki were miles away from that place.
We know that the issue has a trending history before it. I want to remind you that just a few weeks ago, we saw the house of Senate President Bukola Saraki locked down by the police, the house of the DSP simultaneously locked down by agents of the EFCC, and we understand that it is because Saraki got some sort of brief a night before that he was able to outwit the security agencies and get to the plenary to announce the defections of some APC senators to the PDP.
I would rather say it was scripted by the same person you mentioned now. If the DSS or the police wanted to arrest the Senate President for whatever reason, they will do it. They are professionals. They know what to do. But what I am saying is, you should watch from now till election time, there will be more dramas. There would so much attempted kidnap, somebody trying to jump on top of the tree. You will have to ask the Senate President why he is politicising the Nigerian security. Why write scripts that will ridicule Nigerian security? You were going in the morning to read the names of defectors some of whom said “we never defected” and you wanted to have the sympathy of Nigerians, you then created a circumstance of blockade in your house, and then you said you escaped. Please let us also be critical when we are looking at this Senate President.
When you talk about people writing scripts, which is not impossible, the only argument is that no action was taken in that regard.
We never knew they were going to take it to this ridiculous extent.
We didn’t hear about any action taken against those you alleged Saraki used to block his house to whip up public sympathy, to call them to order.
How did you know that internally actions were not taken against those who made that happen?
You don’t think that should have been made public if indeed it happened?
Don’t conclude that nothing happened. There was an investigation. We have not been shouting about it. Actions have not been taken until it went to this ridiculous level that could affect the image of the country. It will not help our democracy.
What part of the Senate standing rules speaks about electing the Senate President from the majority party?
Try and get a copy. I don’t have all the details off-handed. Try and get a copy and read carefully. It is stated clearly that the Senate Presidency is elected by members of the Senate, and the Senate President must come from party in the majority. It is even logical, not debateable. Any parliament in the world, it is just fair that those who have majority will produce the leader. Since Saraki has left our party, it is an aberration. How can you have the minority presiding over the affairs of the majority?
In 2014 when Tambuwal was the Speaker of the House of Representatives and he defected from the PDP to the APC, he remained in his position even though the PDP was in the majority.
Yes, the PDP was in the majority. After he defected, those who were there were not ready to change the leadership. It was not the right thing to do. And because something was done wrongly some years ago does not mean that should continue.
How about in the Second Republic when we had Ume Ezeoke of the minority NPP as Speaker of the House of Reps when the NPN was in the majority, is that not also a precedent?
Well, I don’t have that facts but I know that, at that time, there was a working agreement between Ume Ezeoke’s NPP and the NPN in the majority.
You talked about script being played and referred to a script written and played by the PDP and acted by the DSS. Does that imply that the Senate President is the one giving directives to the DSS?
You have to come to a judgment about what has happened. The facts are there on the ground. It is now left for you to conclude whichever way you want to. But what happened, to me, is unusual and uncommon. You said you were not allowing anybody to enter the National Assembly, yet a good number of PDP lawmakers were there.
On the blockade of the Senate President’s house, you said it happened so that the Senate President could whip up sentiment. Is it that he told the DSS to come and block his house to whip up sentiment and he also told them to block the National Assembly?
What we are saying is that he used security men attached to his office, two of those cars to appear on the road and then called reporters to come over.
You mean the Senate President has over 10 DSS officials attached to his office?
Please try to find out, you will get the details.
I think it is very unfair to say we are making a case for the Senate President. We have absolutely no interest.
I saw PDP Senator Ben Bruce in a video on social media, alleging right in front of that place at 6am that members of the APC slept overnight in the chambers, attempting to impeach Saraki, that is misinformation. Nobody is going to tolerate that any longer. Let them go and look for other scripts to write. That will no longer happen.
Some people would have wondered why the Presidency didn’t take action when the Benue House of Assembly was invaded by the DSS.
Let me reassure you that, henceforth, that will no longer be tolerated. Any action that will rubbish our country, rubbish our democracy, present us as hooligans will no longer be tolerated. Whether on the part of the executive or the legislative, whatever it is that will make us look bad to the rest of the world and to the citizens of Nigeria shall no longer be tolerated.
We have seen abuses of power and no consequences. When you say this is the end, mind you, the President will soon return to the country.
(Cuts in). The Presidency is one. This kind of division you guys are trying to look at does not exist.
Interview first aired on Channels Television
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